Mammoths and Hippos and Crocs, Oh My!

KB writes: "I have often wondered where we got the idea of the ice age. I work at a public high school and the ice age is mentioned in science as if it is truth.  It is not called a 'theory'.  ...I would like to know if the ice age is mentioned or even slightly implied in the Bible." She also asks, "...in the Book of Job some kind of creature is mentioned as a Leviathan, and Behemoth, what do you think they are?"

Great questions! The concept of an ice age is largely based upon the study of geology, although there is some chemical and fossil evidence, too. I assume from your email address that you live in the Pacific NW. Geologists have discerned considerable evidence of activity consistent with an "ice age scenario" in numerous features surrounding Puget Sound in WA. Most geologists would discern more than one significant advance of ice into the area. I have personally done field studies of some of this evidence as a geology student, and the observable data is quit striking.

For example, a valley carved by glacial ice has a distinctive "u" shape - these features can be observed in areas that have no current glacial activity. Significant advance of ice and glacial activity is the most reasonable explanation for this data, to date. I can understand why someone would present this as "truth" because there does not seem to be any viable alternative explanation for the physical evidence. So even though it is a theory, it is the preferred theory and therefore one people choose as their front-runner for the title, "truth."

There is some evidence which doesn't seem to square with this theory. For example, the remains of  woolly mammoths have been found in a state that suggests they were "flash frozen." Would the slow advance of ice produce such evidence? If not, does the theory need some modification to better account for the evidence?

Let's assume for the moment that the geological data does support the theory that our planet has gone through some significant climatic changes that resulted in an "ice age." Your question (and mine) is, "How would such a view square with what the Bible teaches?" Here are several biblical guard rails that should enter into our answer.

1. There is no event mentioned in the Bible that is described in terms that sound like an "ice age." This does not mean there is a "contradiction" between an "ice age" theory and the Bible - only that it is not specifically mentioned.
2. However, there are some VERY intriguing statements found in Genesis. In Gen. 1:6-10, we learn that God created two major bodies of water, only one of which became oceans or the "seas." Where is the other? In Gen. 2:5-6, we learn that plant hydration was accomplished by a mist which would rise from the earth. "Rain" was not a climactic feature of the world at this time. So the "above ground" body of water produced no rain. And the "below ground" body of water produced the "mist." In Gen. 7:11, we learn that the source of water for the flood came from two sources, the fountains of the great deep and the floodgates of the sky. This much seems clear, the world before the flood had a significantly different set of climactic dynamics than the world we know.
3. If this pre-flood world was more like a giant greenhouse, and if the flood occurred as a result of the collapse of this greenhouse, then dramatic climactic change is something we would expect. It is POSSIBLE that the mechanism for the flood had the effect of (among other things) producing an ice-age type of event.
4. Modern geology and the biblical account of creation do have a fairly clear and serious disagreement about the time-table of these events. Geologists propose that there have been four major ice ages, the most RECENT of which began about 40 million years ago. There is no small debate among students of the Bible about whether the "days" of creation represent literal 24 hour periods or "epochs." The language that is used in the biblical account seems to me (if not to everyone) to clearly describe a sequence of six 24 hour days. So even if there are some gaps in the genealogies of Genesis, this understanding of the Bible suggests that the flood occurred ONLY a few thousand years ago, not 40 million years ago. Any significant advance of ice associated with the flood, by this reckoning, would be a VERY recent occurrence. So two very different views of an "ice-age" timetable are in play here.

Bottom line: The Bible doesn't say anything that denies the possibility of some sort of "ice age" type events. But I do not see how to reconcile science's proposed time-table for the history of our planet with what a "face-value" reading of the the Bible seems to say about the same topic. Some Bible students have eased this tension by interpreting Genesis 1-2 in a way that allows it to describe events that occurred over a greater span of time. I have not found their analysis of the language of Genesis 1-2 convincing.

Leviathan is the name of a creature mentioned in several OT passages. The name means "coiled" or "twisted." The longest description is found in Job 41, where most scholars think the description fits the crocodile. There are several statements - "out of his mouth go burning torches" - that sound like a dragon. But these could be metaphorical statements, something Hebrew poetry is famous for.

The Hebrew word, behema, is used nine times in the OT, usually meaning simply "beasts" or "cattle." But in Job 40:15, "behemoth" seems to be a very particular "beast" whose description matches what we would expect of a hippopotamus.

Comments

[Randy]

These posts just keep getting better. It’s amazing how many subjects (economics, politics, science…) where we can look to the Bible for a Christian worldview perspective. Thanks!

[Jeff]

But a hippo doesn't have a tail the size of a tree. And if it were a hippo, the writer could have described more than the underbelly of the beast.

[Jeff]

...I know, I know, "Don't add anything to what the Scriptures say." But it's like you said about the word "virgin" in Isaiah, that it could mean "girl who got pregnant the first time she had sex," but how is that a significant prophecy, that a girl who got pregnant through her first time would be carrying the Messiah? In the same way, how is the description of a hippo significant? Because there aren't a lot of animal descriptions in the Bible...why is this animal significant?

[GABR13L]

Has anyone else read "The Language of God" by Francis Collins? Doug Matthews mentioned this guy in his recent interview with LW, and I find Dr. Collins to be a fascinating and admirable person - something I reserve for only a handful of people. The book is a very easy read and I highly highly highly recommend it.

Jim: I have discussed this book briefly with Austin (Light-work Jr. ?) and he had not heard of it, but I was wondering if you had. If you have not read it, may I suggest (/beg/insist) that you do when you get some free time? I found it thoroughly enjoyable and couldn't really put it down. I gave a copy to my dad and he enjoyed it a lot as well. The reason I bring it up is that much of the book deals with reconciling Genesis with science. I would absolutely love to hear your response to it, as it has given me a LOT to think about.

[Alex Marshall]

First off, let me just say I'm not committed to the "epoch" interpretation of the days in Genesis one or a 24-hour interpretation. I don't see that issue really having a lot of doctrinal impact on the rest of scripture as long as we agree that God created everything.

Essentially, I don't see authorial intent really being about the mechanics of creation. The rhythmic structure of every day and the almost poetic form of the passage suggests to me the author has a much more literary intention. This makes sense given he wasn't there to see creation and doesn't use the typical Old Testament form of "Thus says the Lord" to indicate he's receiving this account directly from God. So basically, what he's writing seems, on a literary level, to be much more focussed on highlighting some key themes rather than discussing the mechanics or process of creation. Chiefly, I think the themes are God's being the creator, a special emphasis on the creation of man, and the perfect order found on the seventh day when all the work of creation was completed. Time period doesn't seem to be a major emphasis (it seems more to be just part of the structure with which the author built the account). So that being said, it doesn't seem that a literal 24-hour interpretation is necessary to the passage or even what the author intended for the passage. Obviously, a lot more argument can be made on both sides of that debate, but that is a starting point in the reasoning for me.

Switching gears... I found the question about the difference between theory and truth interesting. It appears to me that in most sciences there is no such thing as "proof" in the sense a lot of people like to think of it (the exception to this is mathematics). Nothing can really ever be proven in science with absolute, 100% certainty. This is because science is based on observation. Observations are made, a theory is given to explain them, that theory has implications or predictions that are tested, and it is then either accepted, scrapped, or revised and the process repeats. So to accept something as "truth" in a science is usually to mean it is the most plausible theory. In other words, given all the data we have, it is the theory that is most likely true. But it will never be certain that it is absolutely true.

[Jeff]

I'm not necessarily concerned about the debate between Christian scholars about the creation timeframe. What does bother me is that those who are militant against Christians and creation (aka "The type of person I'm inclined to witness to...why do I bang my head against THAT wall? :)") point to that argument as a basis to reject the Bible as a historical document and even more as the Word of God.

[shego4th]

Is it not possible that instead of a hippo, that the word "tannin (H8577) translated in KJ as "monster, dragon, serpents" as well as the leviathan (H3882, liwyatan) were just different types of dinosaurs? See http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/seamonsters.asp

[Doug Matthews]

The book by F. Collins is an interesting good read. My opinion is he is unfair to Intelligent Design in the book and I'm not strongly convinced of his Logos creation (essentially theistic evolution without the baggage of the name) but it is worth reading and discussion.

Jim, one thing I'm interested in your opinion on. I agree (which isn't worth that much) that the wording and internal consistency within Scripture supports the idea of a set of 6 24 hour creation days. I've been listening to Bruce Walkte and he contends that Genesis 1:1 begins a creation account that involves man but doesn't cover an initial creation which includes those of angels for example. Hence the chaos of creation in 1:2 and 1:3 (where the Bible begins its story of our creation) is the result of Satan's rebellion. As such one might argue that the reconcillation of science and Scripture dating comes from the notion matter existed prior to 1:1 and is therefore older.

In your opinion does this arguement hold any water (either above or below, ha just a little witty comment)

[Jeff]

Doug, do you mind if I respond? Too bad, I'm going to anyway :D

The way I've always understood it, the Bible is the story of the Earth, from beginning (Genesis) to end (Revelation) and that, because of that central focus, we're not even told about anything else but Earth and who effects the Earth. And anything that isn't part of that (creation of Angels, life in outer space?, etc) isn't part of the story, so to speak.

[Jim Fleming]

There are enough comments here to warrant a few additional posts, so check out upcoming posts titled "A Tale of Two Buses" and "All in a Day's Work" (2 parts).

Here are a few specific comments to a question I won't cover in subsequent posts. Yes, it is possible that Behemoth and Leviathan are descriptors used of creatures now extinct, including some type of "pre-historic" creatures. But we cannot be certain what we are dealing with. This much we can say, both of these creatures were available for examination and study by Job who lived in the Middle East about two millennia before Christ.