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September 23, 2008

Comments

randy

No question it is a taxpayer bailout. But do you know where there is an even bigger bail out and greater risk? The U S Treasury. That's right, the same entity that is bailing out those who have been slammed by this sub prime problem has it's own sub prime mess. It's called the national debt; nine trillion and growing every day. It's like having a mortgage where the outstanding principal gets larger every month and you must either earn more income or borrow more money to remain current on your payments. So it is pretty clear to me, a bailout, however repugnant it is to just about everybody, is a last ditch lifeline to prevent future unemployment (tax receipts) and restore confidence with investors (i.e. more lending.) Otherwise, the economy and the government tanks. That means everything that the government currently provides is seriously compromised.

Will the plan work? Probably not well. But it's too late to undo twenty years of fiscal irresponsibility facing a week of reckoning. Certainly, it seems like we all could learn some valuable biblical principles on money management from the current crisis. I know it has been a sobering lesson for me with respect to some of my own past spending patterns!

don

Way to Randy!!. when i hear about the debt that "MANY" of our brothers and sisters (in our church) are incurring or have acccrued,then i have to wonder which Bible they are reading!Worse yet, they are enabling and setting a poor example for their children as they go forward and into debt themselves. I know Jim does'nt preach that!!Also i wonder what "value" the Lord puts on our evangelizing/witnessing when he sees that we are in hock up to our knees.I am not referring to honorable debt(helping a close hard working / poor relative with essential medical treatments ,as an example)...i'm talking about having all the "coolest stuff" etc..........In this country, what a company decides to pay a ceo (etc) is their business but if they are going to use my tax payments to pay for those type of things in this so called bailout ,then i'll take exception. Additionally, i hear a lot of "we'll borrow for this and for that" but i dont hear we'll cut the billions we spent in support of illegal alliens...I thought this was going to be a fiscally responsible administration! why dont we cut back on something....anything!! It would be nice to see some legal action from the justice dept. for those that violated the plethora of laws already in place..

AC

So where, exactly, does it say in the Bible that consumers are being sinful by borrowing money or buying cool stuff? And frankly, there's a far less ridiculous explanation for why people have become over-leveraged than saying "they're not reading their Bibles."

don

If one reads the above comments carefully, the word "SIN" is not mentioned...more on this later.

AC

"One" doesn't have to read carefully at all to catch the sentiment: sanctimonious censure. Sure, the word "sin" isn't in there. But the latent accusation definitely still is.

The parents who're in debt are "bad" examples, and haven't read their Bibles--that's as clear an indictment as any. The sheer hubris that incites "one" to use people's mortgage as a platform to condemn their parenting is repulsive.

Of course, Job's friends knew all about how to use material consequences to bolster their credentials as spiritual hatchet men. So I guess I'm wondering, when "one" emulates their example, which Bible can "one" claim to have been reading?

Oh, and how many of those "bad parents" within "one's" fellowship should "one" have confronted personally before scolding them on this website? It might behoove "one" to think before dragging his fellow congregants' collective reputation through the muck.

And forgive me if the brand of piety that use every opportunity to construe other people's economic posture as unspiritual or stupid ain't my cup of putrid tea. Economics is economics. And there are plenty of explanations for pervasive over-leveraging that don't stoop to stomping on others' spiritual maturity.

Austin

You know, I heard a financial analyst likening the proposed deal to this scenario: someone puts five cocktails in front of you, but one of them has arsenic in it.

The idea is, no one will drink any of the cocktails because the risk is so high of death. So, the analyst's take on this is: the government is, in essence, taking the five cocktails on the assumption that one will be toxic, but the other four will more than compensate for the loss of the one bad loan package.

In theory, I guess that's not a bad plan. There are two reasons, though, why I don't think it's going to turn out well for taxpayers.

First, I doubt the other four cocktails don't have alot more arsenic in them than we currently think.

Second, even if they don't, and the value of these assets skyrockets, do you really think the federal government will issue a rebate or a dividend on the investment that taxpayers financed? I doubt it. Any government surplus will likely by spent. So, the taxpayer can be conscripted as a financier, but receives no benefit back.

Of course, all of this assumes that a lending scheme to generate liquidity will pull us out of the hole. I don't think it will.

don

Well AC, you put me in my place.I sincerely apologize to any and all that i might have offended...you too...It was not meant as a sanctimonious attack, but it sure came across that way...i will now go away and lick my well deserved wounds...i've been more than humbled..

AC

Some "wins" prove hollow just as soon as the bell rings. Don, I owe YOU an apology. Rather than engage you in a constructive discussion, I went for a punchline. Your gracious response to my diatribe only throws my reckless aspersions into sharper relief. I was mean. Please accept my humble apologies. Will you forgive me?

Jim Fleming

Don & AC,
I don't recall seeing this kind of interchange on a blog site. Usually, the rancor just keeps ramping up. You both have taken things in the opposite direction. Who among us has not said things we wish we hadn't? But less common are those who can admit it and seek to put things right. Even more rare are those who are willing to do so in a public forum with genuine humility. Well done to you both.

don

AC,i am inept with email typing so i'm sorry about all the dots as i dont know how to make paragraphs on the key board. Also my written english is'nt the strongest. Your note gave me such a lift..it was gracious and encouraging to do that as i rode the bottom all day.You did not need to apologize ,but offcourse i'll accept it. I have been doing business with God all day about this..and i did not realize it earlier in the am, but have since concluded after much prayer and reflection that i LIED to you and all the readers about not trying to be "intentionally" superior..I now suspect that indeed i was lashing out at my bro's and sisters in Christ...Now i'll proceed to demo to you how i failed here..Here's the deal, my spiritual bag has nothing in it to speak of but by the grace of God he has managed to allow me to be debt free for many years; but make no mistake, i must have been jelous that everybody else's spiritual bag was much/much fuller (like its a contest) than mine and i think i found a way to poke a hole in theirs...God has dealt with my pride and lie through you and i'm thankful for the conviction and ashamed of my sin.Satan was in control and the Lord decided to use AC to whip me back into shape. Not to belabor this issue,but my bigger concern was a visitor "misjudging" the wonderful caliber of christians that attend CBC and particapate in this forum because of what i said ...To the readers, please consider the source before you judge this great church. I am ACE the angry man in the web...that's a glimpse of my spiritual bag!!........You mentioned Job's "friends" , i would add the pharisees... In John 15 Christ talks about the greatness of a friend his life for a friend as Christ did for us.I had an opportunity to be a friend today by showing a little empathy,love,understanding and tolerance because that's what Christ wants us to do for each other and i missed an opportunity...Once again, i'm contrite and i guess i should move on...Thanks AC for your follow-up...it meant a lot and i need it. don

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